Gary Gulman might be the kindest man in comedy, and kind is not a word you usually associate with comedians. He had a brief stint as an accountant before eventually finding his biggest comedy audience with The Great Depresh, an HBO special about his struggle with depression. It somehow manages to be one of the funniest (and most human) things you'll ever watch. Stephen Dubner talks to Gary about how his wife grew psilocybin mushrooms in their apartment to help him, why he taped a Beckett line, "fail better," to his childhood bedroom wall, and how getting recognized in a psych ward became great material. Gary Gulman has been finding humor in unexpected places for a while, but he still refers to his viral joke about the two-letter state postal abbreviations as his "Born to Run." Gary Gulman is not only kind, he’s also generous. He lets Stephen share in the hobby that has helped keep him well: basketball. The two shoot hoops in a New York City park, and while Gary's really good (he’s six-foot-six and doesn't miss!), Stephen's reverse layup isn't half bad. #betterinperson #freakonomicsradio #garygulman Airs weekly on Tuesdays. Don't miss an episode! Subscribe NOW: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXjf7anLJA4NqUv8kPFIJWA?sub_confirmation=1 Introducing ChatGPT Work - Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Download the new ChatGPT desktop app today at www.chatgpt.com ABOUT BETTER IN PERSON: Everyone has a public story. Stephen Dubner wants the rest. On Better in Person, Dubner invites remarkable people into his home for a kind of conversation that’s hard to find: curious, free-wheeling, even profound. They talk, play, eat and drink, argue and laugh. The result? Less interview, more shared discovery. This is how a conversation works. FOLLOW BETTER IN PERSON: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterinpersontv TikTok: http://tiktok.com/betterinpersontv FOLLOW STEPHEN DUBNER: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stephenjdubner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-dubner-2a066578/ Substack: https://stephendubner.substack.com FOLLOW FREAKONOMICS: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freakonomics/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/freakonomics/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@freakonomicsradio Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freakonomics LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/freakonomics-media/ Threads: https://www.threads.com/@freakonomics Chapters: 00:00 Meet Gary Gulman 02:05 Getting Fired From Accounting 05:19 The Sade He Married 07:30 Seven Years Without Depression 12:03 Turning Mental Illness Into Comedy 16:02 Why "Fail Better" Changed Everything 20:42 The More Specific, The More Universal 27:44 Why Gary Smiles A Lot 29:39 Growing Up in a Hypercritical Family 32:34 Can Sharing Your Pain Become Dangerous? 37:22 The HBO Special That Changed His Career 40:55 Rediscovering Basketball 42:21 Inside Gary's Joke Notebook How Gary Gulman Turned Depression Into Comedy Gold | Better in Person https://youtu.be/u9Y7Bo84F2w