In this episode, you'll get to dive into a hotly debated topic: should you eat meat, or not? Joining me are two powerhouse guests with decades of experience in nutrition, fitness, and health—Dr. Shawn Baker, best-selling author of The Carnivore Diet and renowned carnivore advocate, and Joel Greene, creator of The Immunity Code and champion of dietary diversity. In this spirited debate, Dr. Baker discusses the benefits he's seen with a strict carnivore approach—meat, eggs, some dairy, and minimal plant foods—not just for himself but for patients dealing with a variety of chronic health issues. He shares why he believes animal-based nutrition is so effective, breaks down the science of ketosis and gut health, and addresses concerns about the long-term effects of fiber-free diets. Meanwhile, Joel Greene makes the case for dietary variety, drawing from evolutionary biology, clinical research, and personal experience. He explores why a combination of animal and plant foods might provide unique synergies, the importance of fiber for gut and immune health, and the natural rhythms of scarcity, feasting, and abundance our ancestors experienced. Joel argues that even small amounts of diverse foods can “nerf” potential downsides of strict elimination diets. Full show notes here: bengreenfieldlife.com/diversityorcarnivore Ben Greenfield Life Website: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/ Ben Greenfield Life Podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/ Ben Greenfield Books: https://shopbengreenfieldlife.com/collections/books Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bengreenfieldfitness/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BGFitness X https://twitter.com/bengreenfield TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@bengreenfield 00:00 Carnivore Diet and Running Goals 05:39 Carnivore Diet for Health Issues 12:16 "Human Body: Constantly Evolving Knowledge" 16:44 Protein Intake and Ketosis Balance 25:49 Krebs Cycle and Uric Acid Insights 31:32 Long-Term Impact of Protein Intake 33:41 Cholesterol, Carnitine, and Populations 40:33 "Bifidobacteria's Key Role in Health" 43:18 Optimal Feeding: Small vs. Large Intestines 53:00 Evaluating Conditional Benefits vs. Essentials 53:54 Fiber's Health Benefits and Socioeconomic Links 01:00:42 Fiber Mitigates Protein-Only Diet Issues 01:06:56 Open to Dietary Change