Watch episodes & bonus content ad-free on https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/ What really happens inside the world’s most dangerous underground economies? And why do the people running them trust a journalist enough to talk? Mariana van Zeller — Emmy- and Peabody Award–winning investigative journalist, host and executive producer of Trafficked on National Geographic, and host of The Hidden Third podcast — has spent years embedded with scammers, smugglers, cartel members, assassins, and black-market power brokers. In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, she pulls back the curtain on the shadow systems that quietly shape the global economy. Mariana breaks down the difference between the black market vs. the grey market, why understanding these hidden economies is the only way to create real change, and how she manages to gain access to some of the most secretive and dangerous players in the world. She explains how empathy, not judgment, is often the key to getting people labeled “the worst of the worst” to open up, and why many of them speak with her because of something surprisingly simple: a deep human need to be heard and understood. She also addresses critics who say she shouldn’t give criminals a platform, revealing why listening to these voices is essential to exposing the systems behind global crime. We dive into her most harrowing experiences in the field — including the terrifying moment she and her team weren’t sure they would make it out alive, and the time they had to escape a country in the middle of a life-threatening military coup while filming. Mariana also unpacks the current climate in Mexico’s drug war, explaining why violence often escalates when major cartel kingpins are taken down, and the troubling implications of the fact that many of the weapons used by cartels originate in the U.S. We get into one of the fastest-growing criminal industries in the world: scams. She breaks down everything you’ve ever wanted to know about romance scams and “pig butchering” operations, including: - Psychological tactics scammers use - Who scammers typically target and why - Massive infrastructure behind modern scam compounds - Why many scammers are actually victims of forced labor themselves - Why victims often stay silent due to shame and stigma Mariana explains why advancing technology, crypto, and AI are making financial scams easier than ever, and why anyone can fall victim — no matter how smart or cautious they are, including the shocking case of a bank CEO who was successfully defrauded. We also explore medical black markets, from organ trafficking to international surrogacy scams, and discuss some of her most intense interviews, from conversations with a suspected Russian sex spy to Anna Delvey, the infamous socialite scammer. Despite spending her career face-to-face with some of the darkest corners of humanity, Mariana reveals something surprising: she still believes deeply in people. In fact, she sometimes finds more hope, honesty, and equality in underground markets than in global governments or legal capitalism. This conversation will change how you think about crime, power, empathy, and the hidden systems shaping our world! --- 00:00 - Intro 03:29 - Inside Black & Gray Markets 06:49 - Broken Systems & Crime 08:20 - What It's Like to Interview an Assassin 12:12 - Gaining Access with Empathy 15:05 - Mexico Cartels & Gun Flow 17:55 - Escaping a Military Coup 25:21 - How Romance Scammers Operate 34:28 - "Pig Butchering" Crypto Scams 36:58 - How Smart People Can Fall Victim to Scams 46:37 - Organ Trafficking & Surrogacy Scams 53:37 - Finding Good In Evil 54:50 - Exotic Pets Trade 55:55 - "Honeypot" Sex Espionage 58:46 - Anna Delvey Interview Fallout 01:04:49 - Redemption & Inequality --- Head to https://www.Superpower.com and use code BREAK at checkout for $20 off your membership. After you sign up, they’ll ask how you heard about them, so make sure to mention this podcast to support the show. --- Listen on our website: https://www.bialikbreakdown.com​​ Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6TgOe2poCdpZtQwKetQmU1 Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mayim-bialiks-breakdown/id1546456269 Check out our Merch: https://shop.bialikbreakdown.com/ Sign up for our Newsletter: https://www.bialikbreakdown.com​​ Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bialikbreakdown/ Find Mayim Bialik: https://mayimbialik.substack.com/ https://www.facebook.com/MissMayim/​​​ https://www.twitter.com/MissMayim/​​​ https://www.instagram.com/MissMayim/​​​ https://www.tiktok.com/@mayimbialik Find Mariana van Zeller: Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/marianavz Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Mariana van Zeller’s podcast, THE HIDDEN THIRD: https://www.youtube.com/@marianavanzeller If interested in partnerships please contact mbb.sponsor@impacttheory.com Theme Song Written, Produced, and Performed by Ed Robertson. Mixed by Kenny Luong.