Rutger Bregman is a Dutch historian, bestselling author, and the guy who went viral telling Davos billionaires to pay their taxes. In this conversation, we dig into the crisis of meaning pervading modern life: Why do so many of us feel like we’re wasting our potential? What’s behind the epidemic of “bullshit jobs”? What can the early abolitionists teach us about building pragmatic coalitions? And why might factory farming be the defining moral catastrophe future generations judge us for? READ MORE👉🏼http://bit.ly/richroll955 Fundraiser: Some conversations stay with you. This was one of them. I committed $25K to Rutger's organization's new US Food System Reform Program, a cause area that is deeply important to me. Through December 31st, every dollar to https://moralambition.org/food is matched. I hope you'll consider joining me today. Let's do something truly meaningful, together. ✌🏼🌱 – Rich This Episode Is Brought To You By… Bon Charge: Use coupon code RICHROLL20 to save 20%👉🏼https://bit.ly/boncharge2025 Roka: Unlock 20% OFF your order with code RICHROLL👉🏼https://bit.ly/ROKA2025 On: High-performance shoes & apparel crafted for comfort and style👉🏼https://bit.ly/ONXRRP2025 Squarespace: Use code RichRoll to save 10% off👉🏼https://bit.ly/squarespace2025 Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉🏾 https://bit.ly/rrpsponsors LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST Apple Podcasts: http://bit.ly/rrpitunes Spotify: http://bit.ly/rrpspotify Google: http://bit.ly/rrpgooglepods Meal Planner: http://meals.richroll.com Voicing Change Book: http://richroll.com/vc Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/RichRollPodcastClips Newsletter: http://bit.ly/rollcallemail CHAPTERS 00:00:00 Intro 00:01:34 Defining Moral Ambition 00:03:54 The Scale of Socially Useless Jobs 00:06:00 Moral Ambition Is Not the Easy Path 00:06:56 Incentive Structures & Cultural Messaging 00:08:52 Modern Culture’s Rewards: Property, Power, Prestige 00:10:37 Honor Codes and Changing Values 00:12:57 Post-WWII Social Contract to Neoliberalism 00:15:17 Economic Disparity & Accessibility of Moral Ambition 00:17:05 Crisis of Meaning & The Book’s Purpose 00:18:14 Rucker’s Personal Crisis of Meaning 00:23:08 Free Will, Justice, and Moral Progress 00:26:11 Small Groups Changing the World 00:27:17 Coalition Building vs. Division Today 00:28:22 Moral Envy & Learning from History 00:30:37 Pragmatism in Activism: Abolitionist Tactics 00:32:39 Sponsor Break 00:35:34 Gradualism vs. Immediatism in Abolitionism 00:39:39 School of Moral Ambition: Programs & Impact 00:41:43 Recruiting Mid-Career Talent & Status 00:44:25 Gandalf-Frodo Model & Prioritization 00:45:59 Passion as a Byproduct of Action 00:48:41 Effective Altruism: Praise and Critique 00:55:18 Building a Mainstream Moral Movement 00:57:29 Factory Farming as a Moral Atrocity 01:03:26 Sponsor Break 01:05:53 Scale and Technology of Factory Farming 01:13:32 Coalition Building for Food System Reform 01:15:38 Lessons from Abolitionism for Animal Rights 01:19:15 Pragmatic Wins: Corporate Pressure & Incremental Change 01:34:01 Onramps to Moral Ambition & Community 01:35:25 Philanthropy, Fundraising, and Talent 01:38:06 American Ambition, Liberty, and Responsibility 01:44:06 Apathy, Distraction, and the Threat of Authoritarianism 01:45:24 Hope from History: Bottom-Up and Top-Down Change 01:46:21 Loss of Third Spaces & Community 01:48:06 Screen Time, Social Collapse, and Neo-Temperance 01:52:34 Hope, Small Groups, and Social Change 01:53:21 Finding Meaning Through Service 01:55:15 Conclusion & Call to Action CONNECT WITH RICH ✩ Website - http://richroll.com​ ✩ Rich Roll Podcast - https://richroll.com/all-episodes/ ✩ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/richroll/ ✩ Twitter - https://twitter.com/richroll ✩ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/richrollfans ✩ Strava - https://www.strava.com/athletes/14443?oq=rich ✩ Memoir: Finding Ultra - https://www.richroll.com/shop/books/finding-ultra/ ✩ Meals - http://meals.richroll.com​ ✩ Cook - The Plantpower Way - https://www.richroll.com/shop/books/the-plantpower-way-signed/ ✩ Italian! - The Plantpower Way: Italia - https://www.richroll.com/shop/books/the-plantpower-way-italia-signed/ ✩ Support - https://www.patreon.com/richroll Thanks To The Team: Jason Camiolo, Dan Drake, Morgan McRae, Blake Curtis, Desmond Loh * * * * * NEW TO RICH? Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles: http://bit.ly/otillonyt http://bit.ly/vegansglam I LOVE MAIL! SEND IT HERE: 2630 Conejo Spectrum St. Thousand Oaks, CA 91320 #richroll #richrollpodcast