What are Prime Ministers really like behind closed doors? How do you become Britain’s most powerful civil servant? Are special advisors a force for good or ill? On today’s episode of Leading, Rory and Alastair are joined by Gus O’Donnell, the former Cabinet Secretary and Head of Civil Service, to answer all these questions and more. 00:00 Intro 01:18 David Cameron’s first day in office 05:05 Gus O’Donnell’s advice for a new prime minister 07:08 Collaboration between ministers & civil servants 12:42 The problems of chopping and changing ministers 14:46 Bonds with Prime Ministers you worked for 19:07 How does the permanent civil service work? 24:35 Rory’s experience with civil servants 29:48 Difference between impartiality and independence 31:11 The relationship between civil servants and special advisors 42:28 The role of the press in our political debate 44:29 Measuring success by population wellbeing not GDP 47:45 Are reform and radical performance possible together? 52:23 Debrief 56:51 Outro TRIP ELECTION TOUR: To buy tickets for our October Election Tour, just head to https://www.therestispolitics.com/ TRIP Plus: Become a member of The Rest Is Politics Plus to support the podcast, receive our exclusive newsletter, enjoy ad-free listening to both TRIP and Leading, benefit from discount book prices on titles mentioned on the pod, join our Discord chatroom, and receive early access to live show tickets and Question Time episodes. Just head to https://www.therestispolitics.com/ to sign up. ✅ Subscribe Here: https://www.youtube.com/@restispolitics ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 🎙️ Listen To The Podcast: https://lnk.to/TheRestIsPoliticsYT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 📱 Follow Us On Socials: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/restispolitics/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/restispolitics/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@restispolitics Twitter: https://twitter.com/RestIsPolitics