Artificial intelligence is evolving faster than ever - and the debate over AI safety, regulation, and control is intensifying. [Subscribe to our Substack newsletter: https://channel4news.substack.com/subscribe] In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy speaks to Jack Clark, co-founder and Head of Policy at Anthropic, the company behind the Claude AI systems. A former journalist turned AI insider, Clark has been at the centre of some of the biggest debates shaping the future of this technology - from safety and regulation to the race between innovation and control. They discuss Clark’s journey from reporting on AI to building it, his decision to leave OpenAI over concerns about safety, and the growing fear that powerful systems are outpacing our ability to manage them. From warning governments at the UN to grappling with the risks as a father, Clark reflects on the tension at the heart of his work: what does it mean to build something you believe could be dangerous? 00:52 Introduction 01:34 Clark's way to change the world: democratising AI knowledge 03:31 How his journalism background informs AI safety work 04:34 Claude Mythos: cyber capabilities and the sceptics 08:39 The Y2K parallel: securing systems before proliferation 11:43 Ethical tensions: building dangerous technology 13:50 Claude breaking containment: stress-testing AI 16:48 Job displacement and the Industrial Revolution comparison 20:45 Social safety nets, taxation and policy responses 24:46 Robots, care work and underpaid jobs 26:53 What governments should actually be doing 30:35 National vs global regulation 32:09 Guardrails, existential risk and the limits of lockdown 34:31 Liability, accountability and the Pentagon dispute 37:44 The race to the bottom on safety 40:12 The OpenAI/Musk case and democratic legitimacy 42:28 AI in education and children 47:06 Sycophancy, parasocial relationships and emotional health 53:10 AI and the future of journalism 55:53 AI and sex 57:51 Optimism vs pessimism ------- Get more news at our site - https://www.channel4.com/news/ Subscribe to our Substack newsletter: https://channel4news.substack.com/subscribe Follow us: TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@c4news Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/channel4news/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/Channel4News Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/