What if the AI systems we're building aren't simply tools, but the beginnings of something more? In this episode, Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman sits down with cognitive scientist Cameron Berg to explore one of the most unsettling questions at the frontier of artificial intelligence: could AI systems actually be conscious? Berg explains why we still don't know whether today's AI models are sophisticated calculators or emerging minds, and why behavior alone may never be enough to answer the question. They explore whether AI could experience pleasure or suffering, whether reinforcement learning could create machine equivalents of reward and punishment, and what happens if we're developing powerful systems without understanding what is happening inside them. The conversation also dives into Berg's documentary Am I?, which was inspired by an extraordinary interaction with an AI system called Maya. What happened during that conversation is strange enough to challenge our assumptions about what these systems are, what they might experience, and how seriously we should take the possibility of machine consciousness. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the show and follow along for more conversations about intelligence, consciousness, creativity, and the future of human potential.