Counterintelligence is inherently difficult because it operates in a gray area where individuals are trained to blend in and behave normally.

“Counter intelligence exists in the gray. These are people who are trained to blend in, [music] who are trained to do things that look normal. So to find that piece of illegality is very, very difficult.”

Collaborating with the FBI to expose an intelligence officer is a positive operation, despite the associated business risks for the company.

“to potentially expose this intelligence officer whose job is to steal IP from American companies. That's just a beautiful operation.”

Matthew McKenzie asserts that the Chinese government's use of its intelligence apparatus to target and steal commercial trade secrets constitutes a violation of international norms.

“Everyone does espionage, but not every country uses their intelligence apparatus to steal commercial trade secrets. That is beyond the norms.”