Safety culture can be exploited by individuals to mask a desire for control and to signal moral superiority.

“the problem is that it can be gamed by people who want to exert power and who can use their putative moral superiority as a justification and I do think that this is this is a kind of epidemic.”

A culture of germophobia and an obsession with total safety makes society less safe, not more.

“well, it seems to me that a safety culture, all things considered, probably makes us globally less safe, but that seems particularly the case uh in relationship, let's say, to germophobic safety culture given what happened in the pandemic.”