Get your DEMYSTICON 2024 tickets here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/demysticon-2024-tickets-727054969987 Dr. Michael Hudson is an American economist, Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri–Kansas City and a researcher at the Levy Economics Institute at Bard College, former Wall Street analyst, political consultant, commentator and journalist. Dr. Steve Keen is an Australian economist and author. A post-Keynesian, he criticizes neoclassical economics as inconsistent, unscientific and empirically unsupported. Our conversation examines the false dichotomy of capitalism v. socialism and considers the true dichotomy, which is industrial capitalism v. finance capitalism. Hudson and Keen argue that the transition to finance capitalism, where unearned income is considered economic growth, has truly sown the seeds to ruin the world. Tell us what you think in the comments or on our Discord: https://discord.gg/MJzKT8CQub Sign up for a yearly Patreon membership for discounted conference tickets: https://bit.ly/3lcAasB Support DSPod and the guests when you pick up their books here: Hudson books: https://amzn.to/3Sx6k43 Keen books: https://amzn.to/3MFJ14i Podcast transcript: https://demystifysci.com/transcripts/2023/11/24/dspod-203 00:00:00 Go! 00:00:19 What we're really talking about is finance capitalism 00:03:25 What is Capitalism? 00:17:55 Was the end of the Happy Days inevitable? 00:28:50 A more nuanced dichotomy than capitalism vs socialism 00:36:01 Why does GDP still manage to slow down? 00:46:32 Why is debt so stifling? 00:55:29 What happens to the money that accumulates at the top 01:01:39 The shape of global financial pressure 01:11:02 Modern examples of debt jubilees 01:19:12 Solutions without collapse? 01:23:13 Persistent economic myths 01:45:38 Strange realities of cancelling student debt 02:03:40 Financializing the basic structures of society 02:15:07 How to structure the next iteration 02:27:48 Doomer optimism 02:33:47 A new, more effective state 02:39:25 Closing thoughts #FinanceCapitalism, #EconomicInequality, #WealthGap, #CorporateGreed, #FinancialSystem, #CapitalismCritique, #IncomeInequality, #GlobalFinance, #FinancialCrises, #EconomicInjustice, #WealthDistribution, #CapitalismFlaws, #FinancialDeregulation, #EconomicCollapse, #SocialJustice, #CorporatePower, #FinancialManipulation, #MarketFailures, #FinancialInsecurity, #SystemicInequality Check our short-films channel, @DemystifySci: https://www.youtube.com/c/DemystifyingScience AND our material science investigations of atomics, @MaterialAtomics https://www.youtube.com/@MaterialAtomics Join our mailing list https://bit.ly/3v3kz2S PODCAST INFO: Anastasia completed her PhD studying bioelectricity at Columbia University. When not talking to brilliant people or making movies, she spends her time painting, reading, and guiding backcountry excursions. Shilo also did his PhD at Columbia studying the elastic properties of molecular water. When he's not in the film studio, he's exploring sound in music. They are both freelance professors at various universities. - Blog: http://DemystifySci.com/blog - RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/2be66934/podcast/rss - Donate: https://bit.ly/3wkPqaD - Swag: https://bit.ly/2PXdC2y SOCIAL: - Discord: https://discord.gg/MJzKT8CQub - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DemystifySci - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/DemystifySci/ - Twitter: https://twitter.com/DemystifySci MUSIC: -Shilo Delay: https://g.co/kgs/oty671