Rodger Shanahan joins John Anderson to examine the true objectives behind U.S. and Israeli military action against Iran. Is this about preventing a nuclear capability, dismantling Iran’s proxy network, or ultimately forcing regime change? Shanahan argues that while public messaging has been inconsistent, the rhetoric and targeting patterns increasingly point toward regime change — a strategic ambition with a poor historical record when pursued through air power alone. The discussion unpacks Iran’s ideological foundations, its history of foreign intervention, the erosion of its “forward defence” strategy, and the real limits of military precision in shaping political outcomes. From contested nuclear claims to the future of the rules-based order, this is a sober, strategic assessment of whether the world will emerge safer — or more unstable. Rodger Shanahan is a non-resident fellow at the Lowy Institute specialising in Middle East security and strategic affairs. He holds a PhD in Arab and Islamic Studies from the University of Sydney and is a former Australian Army officer with operational deployments to Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan and East Timor, as well as diplomatic postings to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. He has also served as an expert witness in more than 30 Australian terrorism cases. Sign up to John's newsletter here: https://johnanderson.net.au/contact/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conversations feature John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, interviewing the world's foremost thought leaders about today's pressing social, cultural and political issues. John believes proper, robust dialogue is necessary if we are to maintain our social strength and cohesion. As he puts it; "You cannot get good public policy out of a bad public debate." If you value this discussion and want to see more like it, make sure you subscribe to the channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtnYSEGViOnb7k8ezUaWUww?sub_confirmation=1 And stay right up to date with all the conversations by subscribing to the newsletter here: https://johnanderson.net.au/contact/ Follow John on X: https://x.com/JohnAndersonAC Follow John on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnandersonac Follow John on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnandersonac/ Support the channel: https://johnanderson.net.au/support/ Website: https://johnanderson.net.au/ Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Qh2fEsC7nEVxXxQzwTv54 2QH0QLLWRVNX5LFA