When George Saunders was awarded a medal by the National Book Foundation last year, he was introduced as “the ultimate teacher of kindness and of craft.” He has written 13 books, including “Lincoln in the Bardo,” which won the 2017 Booker Prize. His latest novel, “Vigil,” is out this month, and is about an oil tycoon on his deathbed. But Saunders' reputation as a sort of guru of goodness comes from his 2013 convocation speech at Syracuse University, in which he extolled the importance of being kind. That speech went viral and was repackaged as a book, "Congratulations, by the Way," which became a best seller. Saunders joined David Marchese to talk about what it's like to be thought of as a kindness expert, his new book and some of life's deeper questions. Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/10/magazine/george-saunders-interview.html [00:00:03] Introducing George Saunders [00:03:01] “Vigil,” His’ New Book [00:10:39] Was It Inevitable for Saunders To Write? [00:13:40] After Voting for Reagan, a Shift in Perspective [00:16:29] Empathy and Writing - Could You Write a Fictional Version of Trump? [00:22:48] When Do You Struggle With Kindness? [00:26:53] Some Things White House Says Are Post-Orwell, Post-Kafka [00:27:21] Links Between Buddhism, Kindness and Art [00:31:49] “I’ve Always Been Death Obsessed.” [00:39:55] How Does Reading Literature Change Us? [00:44:52] Fiction’s Impact on Our Culture [00:52:41] Reflecting on His Life and Success “The Interview” features conversations with the world’s most fascinating people. Each week, co-hosts David Marchese and Lulu Garcia-Navarro talk to compelling, influential figures in culture, politics, business, sports and beyond — illuminating who they are, why they do what they do and how they impact the rest of us. Subscribe to “The Interview”: https://www.youtube.com/@theinterviewpodcast Download the New York Times app: https://bit.ly/4gZdoip #theinterview