Sebastian Mallaby is the Paul A. Volcker senior fellow for international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, and the author of six books, including More Money Than God, The Power Law, The Man Who Knew, and The World's Banker. His latest book is The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence. This episode is brought to you by: Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: https://EightSleep.com/Tim AG1 Pro all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim Wealthfront high-yield cash account: https://Wealthfront.com/Tim Wealthfront disclaimer: New clients get 3.30% base APY from program banks + additional 0.75% boost for 3 months on your uninvested cash (max $150k balance). Terms and conditions apply. The Cash Account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC (“WFB”) member FINRA/SIPC, not a bank. The base APY as of 1/30/26 is representative, can change, and requires no minimum. Tim Ferriss, a non-client, receives compensation from WFB for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of WFB, which creates a conflict of interest. Individual experiences and outcomes will differ. Instant withdrawals may be limited by your receiving firm and other factors. Investment advisory services provided by Wealthfront Advisers LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. Securities investments: not bank deposits, not bank-guaranteed or FDIC-insured, and may lose value. [00:00] Start. [00:41] The twinkly eyed polymath who became Sebastian's next book. [05:19] Picking the next book project the way a great VC picks a startup. [08:20] Why God keeps crashing the superintelligence party. [09:55] Shane Legg's grainy 2009 prophecy — and the nervous giggle. [11:51] Ilya Sutskever burns an effigy. [12:31] Demis at 4 a.m., hunting God's algorithm. [14:32] Super-abundance, Mad Max, and the China shock lesson. [18:34] The kitchen debate with Geoff Hinton that flipped Sebastian. [20:07] Why a zero-percent chance of doom is indefensible. [20:56] Will Washington seize the labs? The Mythos wake-up call. [23:25] Anthropic's bull case, bear case, and a dead parent's letter. [29:36] Where Sebastian and Benedict Evans part ways. [34:56] Is the SaaS apocalypse overdone? One word: Palantir. [36:35] The AI friend you'll never switch. [38:50] Does Google win consumer AI by default? [40:26] Four cities, eight days: China actually talks safety. [43:15] A Cold War non-proliferation playbook for AI. [45:34] Did the chip export controls actually work? [48:43] Burned doves: why Washington swears China won't talk. [50:51] "By 2028, the race is over" — one lab boss' bet. [55:21] Inside Hikvision: toddlers, sensors, and US sanctions. [57:21] Bill Gurley's Uber bet: venture capital perfected. [1:01:40] Luke Nosek bear-hugs DeepMind into existence. [1:07:24] Thiel's heresy: never invest by committee. [1:08:36] How Founders Fund nearly fumbled the deal of the century. [1:11:09] Selling to Google for $650M: a secret British heist? [1:13:28] The Traitorous Eight, gardening leave, and the UK's to-do list. [1:17:51] Ender's Game: "That's really how I see myself." [1:20:39] Too dumb for Gödel, Escher, Bach? Maybe an LLM can help. [1:22:12] If not Demis or Sam, then Dario. [1:23:03] My royalties cliff — and what dropped in late 2022. [1:24:47] Lila Sciences and the labs that run themselves. [1:28:10] Sebastian's billboard: "Prepare your mind." [1:32:25] The one thing Sebastian will never outsource to AI. [1:37:36] Parting thoughts. Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded one billion downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running. Sign up for "5-Bullet Friday" (Tim's free weekly email newsletter): https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-yt/ Follow the Tim Ferriss Podcast: https://tim.blog/podcast/ Visit the Tim Ferriss Blog: https://tim.blog/ Follow Tim Ferriss on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tferriss/ Follow Tim Ferriss on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timferriss/ Like Tim Ferriss on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/