Will Larson is the chief technology officer at Carta. Prior to joining Carta, he was the CTO at Calm and held engineering leadership roles at Stripe, Uber, and Digg. He is the author of two foundational engineering career books, An Elegant Puzzle and Staff Engineer, and The Engineering Executive’s Primer, which will be released in February of next year. In our conversation, we discuss: • Systems thinking: what it is and how to apply it • Advice for product managers on fostering productive relationships with engineering managers • Why companies should treat engineers like adults • How to best measure developer productivity • Writing and its impact on his career • How to balance writing with a demanding job • How to develop your company values — Brought to you by DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity: https://getdx.com/lenny | OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-engineering-mindset-will-larson Where to find Will Larson: • X: https://twitter.com/Lethain • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-larson-a44b543/ • Website: https://lethain.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Will’s background (04:12) Changes in the field of engineering (06:27) We need to stop treating engineers like children (08:32) Systems thinking (13:23) Implementing systems thinking in hiring (16:32) Engineering strategy (20:21) Examples of engineering strategies (25:08) How to get good at strategy (26:48) The importance of writing about things that excite you (32:40) The biggest risk to content creation is quitting too soon (35:24) How to make time for writing (37:41) Tips for aspiring writers (41:18) Building productive relationships between product managers and engineers (43:45) Giving the same performance rating to EMs and PMs (48:24) Measuring engineering productivity (55:53) Defining company values (01:02:10) Failure corner: the Digg rewrite (01:11:05) Will’s upcoming book, The Engineering Executive’s Primer (01:12:04) Lightning round Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.