Nathan Betz (PhD, KU Leuven; MSt, Oxford) is a theologian and historian whose research explores ancient Christianity, deification, early approaches to fundamental human purpose (teleology), the reception of John's Revelation, and the history of one of the most powerful images in the Christian imagination: the New Jerusalem. In this conversation, we talk about how the early fathers saw the heavenly Jerusalem not as a mansion in the sky, but as the point of everything. We discuss why the earliest apse mosaics in Rome stack paradise beneath the heavenly city, how churches came to be built after Revelation instead of just the old temple, and why the texts we have today are only small window into a much richer life. https://www.nathanbetz.com/ 📖 Get 35% off Nathan's book: Title: City of Gods: The New Jerusalem of John’s Revelation in Early Christianity by Nathan Betz Discount Code (35%): DGBCONF4 (discount will be applied after clicking “checkout") Purchase Website: https://brill.com/display/title/65150 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website, blog, courses: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 📚 Store: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/