The pandemic and the subsequent crisis took our institutions and leaders by surprise. But the people who have been studying complexity and systems for decades saw this coming. What can the lens of systems theory and complexity reveal about the crisis? Rebel Wisdom talks to three experts in the field. Jim Rutt, the former chairman of the world-leading Santa Fe Institute, Nora Bateson, the head of the Bateson Institute and the inventor of 'Warm Data' labs, and Joe Brewer, an expert in complexity research, cognitive science, and cultural evolution. You can listen to podcast versions of our films on Spotify or Apple Podcasts by searching 'Rebel Wisdom' or download episodes from our Podbean page: https://rebelwisdom.podbean.com Rebel Wisdom are now running regular Q&As with the interviewees from our films for our members, check out: https://www.rebelwisdom.co.uk/plans