Arab Barghouti joins Alastair and Rory to discuss who, instead of Hamas, could represent a peaceful Palestinian leadership? Why does Marwan Barghouti remain the most popular leader in Palestine despite being in jail for over 20 years, a period during which more than 50% of the population was not yet born? How do the Occupied territories remain hopeful during the ongoing war in the region? Sign up to Revolut Business today via: https://get.revolut.com/z4lF/leading, and add money to your account to get a £200 welcome bonus. This offer’s only available until 7th July 2025 and other T&Cs apply. 00:00 – Revolut 01:10 – Intro to episode & Gaza conflict overview 02:02 – Introduction of Arab Barghouti and his father Marwan 03:31 – Marwan Barghouti’s early life and activism 06:38 – Oslo Accords, return to Palestine, Arab’s early life 08:03 – Arab’s personal background and career 09:20 – Relationship with his father and his character 10:54 – Torture and prison conditions Marwan endured 12:05 – Arab's mother and her activism 13:26 – Marwan’s political stance and two-state support 15:02 – Armed vs. peaceful resistance 16:48 – Prison education initiatives led by Marwan 19:17 – Freedom fighter vs. terrorist framing 21:03 – Views on October 7th attacks 24:48 – Divided Palestinian leadership and potential role for Marwan 28:13 – Marwan’s readiness and intellectual sharpness 31:09 – Arab nationalism vs. Islamism and Marwan’s unifying role 33:07 – Refugee return and negotiating complexities 36:26 – Trump, Gulf normalization, and Arab reaction 40:48 – Europe’s role and double standards in foreign policy 43:46 – Experience of giving interviews and Palestinian suffering 46:29 – Arab’s future and refusal to give up hope 47:53 - Debrief