Alistair Croll is the co-author of the best-selling book Lean Analytics and a longtime product manager, entrepreneur, and startup advisor. He was also instrumental in my starting a company, funding it, and helping us exit to Airbnb as part of his Year One Labs incubator. He’s chaired notable events such as O’Reilly’s Strata and UBM’s Cloud Connect and founded FWD50. In our conversation, we focus on lessons from an upcoming book by Alistair and his co-author, Emily Ross, Just Evil Enough, which is set for release in late 2024. We cover: • The importance of subversive marketing strategies in most startups’ growth • 11 specific subversive tactics that successful companies have used • Examples of companies like Netflix, Airbnb, and Tesla that used clever tactics early on • A framework for scanning your market for opportunities • The importance of finding your “zero-day marketing exploit” • How to apply these tactics ethically without actually being evil • Much more — Brought to you by: • WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lenny • Hex—Helping teams ask and answer data questions by working together: https://www.hex.tech/lenny • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/just-evil-enough-alistair-croll Where to find Alistair Croll: • X: https://x.com/acroll • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@alistairish • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alistaircroll/ • Website: https://justevilenough.com/ • Substack: https://acroll.substack.com/ • Just Evil Enough on X: https://x.com/evilenough • Just Evil Enough on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/just-evil-enough/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Alistair’s background  (02:00) The story behind Alistair and Emily’s book Just Evil Enough (06:17) Examples of subversive tactics (07:43) The importance of unfair advantage (10:36) The origin of the title “Just Evil Enough” (14:24) System awareness and novelty (19:16) How to use this thinking successfully  (22:37) Normalizing disagreeable thinking  (25:49) Recon canvas and market scanning (32:43) 11 tactics for subversive marketing (57:01) Implementing subversive strategies (01:05:01) Ethical considerations in marketing (01:08:19) Lightning round Referenced: • Just Evil Enough: https://justevilenough.com/ • Lean Analytics: Use Data to Build a Better Startup Faster: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Analytics-Better-Startup-Faster/dp/1449335675 • A Look Back at Why Blockbuster Really Failed and Why It Didn’t Have To: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2014/09/05/a-look-back-at-why-blockbuster-really-failed-and-why-it-didnt-have-to/ • The top shelf strategy: https://justevilenough.com/the-top-shelf-strategy/ • Bumble: https://bumble.com/en-us/ • How Dropbox grew 1,300% in 15 months through a simple referral program: https://medium.com/@sunilmehta_12892/how-dropbox-grew-1300-in-15-months-through-a-simple-referral-program-c83a73277dc6 • “Spanish Train” by Chris de Burgh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRIr6HVgXp4 • Year One Labs: A Look Back: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/year-one-labs-look-back-raymond-luk/ • Ben Yoskovitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/byosko/ • The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0670921602 • Why did Airbnb just buy Localmind? Local expertise: https://venturebeat.com/entrepreneur/airbnb-acquires-localmind/ • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-on-building-product-sense • Behance: https://www.behance.net/ • Tina Seelig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinaseelig/ • How Did These Stanford Students Turn $5 into $650 in Just 2 Hours? They Used the Power of First Principles, and So Can You: https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/first-principles-stanford-tina-seelig-problem-solving.html • Gymshark: https://www.gymshark.com/ • Gymshark launches fake birthday campaign to get shoppers’ attention before Black Friday: https://www.theindustry.fashion/gymshark-launches-fake-birthday-campaign-to-get-shoppers-attention-before-black-friday/ ...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/just-evil-enough-alistair-croll Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.