David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH) is a legendary programmer, creator of Ruby on Rails, co-owner & CTO of 37signals that created Basecamp, HEY, & ONCE, and is a NYT-best-selling author (with Jason Fried) of 4 books: REWORK, REMOTE, Getting Real, and It Doesn't Have To Be Crazy At Work. He is also a race car driver, including a class-winning performance at the 24 hour Le Mans race. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep474-sb See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. *Transcript:* https://lexfridman.com/dhh-david-heinemeier-hansson-transcript *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* DHH's X: https://x.com/dhh DHH's Website: https://dhh.dk/ Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/ 37signals: https://37signals.com/ DHH's books: Rework: https://amzn.to/44rSKob Remote: https://amzn.to/44GFJ91 It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work: https://amzn.to/46bzuwx Getting Real: https://amzn.to/4kzoMDg *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *UPLIFT Desk:* Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/uplift_desk-ep474-sb *Lindy:* No-code AI agent builder. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lindy-ep474-sb *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep474-sb *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep474-sb *NetSuite:* Business management software. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/netsuite-ep474-sb *OUTLINE:* 0:00 - Episode highlight 1:21 - Introduction 2:32 - Programming - early days 19:57 - JavaScript 30:16 - Google Chrome and DOJ 38:03 - Ruby programming language 45:14 - Beautiful code 1:03:15 - Metaprogramming 1:06:36 - Dynamic typing 1:13:55 - Scaling 1:26:47 - Future of programming 1:44:18 - Future of AI 1:50:13 - Vibe coding 1:58:45 - Rails manifesto: Principles of a great programming language 2:23:11 - Why managers are useless 2:32:32 - Small teams 2:38:39 - Jeff Bezos 2:53:57 - Why meetings are toxic 3:01:43 - Case against retirement 3:09:00 - Hard work 3:14:38 - Why we left the cloud 3:17:48 - AWS 3:27:07 - Owning your own servers 3:33:19 - Elon Musk 3:43:01 - Apple 3:54:48 - Tim Sweeney 4:06:22 - Fatherhood 4:32:04 - Racing 4:59:08 - Cars 5:04:26 - Programming setup 5:19:35 - Programming language for beginners 5:32:53 - Open source 5:41:46 - WordPress drama 5:53:03 - Money and happiness 6:01:56 - Hope *PODCAST LINKS:* - Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips *SOCIAL LINKS:* - X: https://x.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://instagram.com/lexfridman - TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://facebook.com/lexfridman - Patreon: https://patreon.com/lexfridman - Telegram: https://t.me/lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman