In this episode, Shilo Brooks sits down with New York City public defender Ben Schatz to discuss the novel True Grit—and the nature of justice in America. Ben founded the nonprofit Books Beyond Bars, which sends requested books (not just random donations) to individuals locked in New York jails and prisons, giving them dignity, mental escape, and intellectual stimulation. After discussing True Grit, Ben offers his critique of the U.S. criminal justice system itself: its coercive plea bargaining, racism, overburdened defenders and judges, and prisons that function more as warehouses than places of rehabilitation, especially for mentally ill and addicted people. Throughout, the conversation links the moral center of True Grit to real‑world questions about what justice is, who deserves mercy, and how to look past someone’s criminal history.