Michael Horowitz is the former deputy assistant secretary of defense for force development and emerging capabilities at the Department of Defense, and currently a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Horowitz joins Big Technology to discuss the Anthropic–Pentagon rupture and what it signals about how the U.S. government wants to use frontier AI. Tune in to hear his inside view on how models like Claude actually get deployed in defense workflows, why a contract fight over “mass surveillance” language escalated, and what the trust breakdown says about the future of AI partnerships with the state. We also cover autonomous weapon systems vs. “fully autonomous weapons,” what today’s AI can and can’t do on the battlefield, and how AI is likely to reshape warfare over time. Chapters: 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:00:14 - Podcast Introduction and Guest Introduction 00:02:48 - Understanding the Conflict 00:12:41 - The Role of AI in the Pentagon 00:16:03 - AI Tools and Military Strategy 00:18:29 - AI and Autonomous Weapon Systems 00:25:47 - Government Perspective on AI Usage 00:28:15 - Government Reaction and Impact on AI Innovation 00:30:26 - Supply Chain Risk and Anthropic 00:33:27 - Potential Impact on Anthropic's Future 00:41:01 - AI's Role in Changing Warfare