We learn about Martine & Stuart's children especially surrounding the births of two children with Epidermolysis Bullosa (EB), a rare, painful, and ultimately fatal genetic skin condition. The episode covers the difficulties of caring for a child with EB, including the constant pain and challenges of basic daily tasks like feeding, as well as the emotional toll on the parents. After the death of their first baby, Nathaniel, the couple has another child, this time a healthy son. They move to Louisiana, where they became involved in their LDS branch and have a third child, Sarah, who was also born with EB. The Louisiana ward rallies around the Smith's and Sarah though she will eventually succumb to the disease as well. The episode delves into the contradictions and complexities of Mormon doctrine around the Plan of Salvation, infant death, and birth control. Martine and Stuart initially feel guilt and shame, wondering if the disease is a "punishment" for wanting to put off having children, or worse, that their children's suffering was due to some kind of "lesson" the couple needed to learn. Martine & Stuart Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxq5opj6GqOCEEDV9TG4qj_l40TqfmHMV Chapters: 00:00:00 Pregnancy, birth control, Mormon doctrine 00:09:00 First son Nathanial is born, but fragile skin rips off 00:15:00 Epidermolysis Bullosa Diagnosis, told not to hold or touch Nathanial, "cruel" 00:28:30 Contradicting doctrines on premortal decisions effect on disabilities 00:48:15 How it feels to see the baby suffering. 00:58:00 Learning to let Nathaniel go 01:20:15 How Mormons deal with death, spiritual platitudes 01:26:00 Mormon Plan of Salvation simultaneously offers hope initially but soon presents problems & cruel implications 01:36:45 Despite some hesitancy, Martine becomes pregnant & gives birth to healthy baby boy 01:40:00 New house, new calling, new pregnancy in Baton Rouge 01:46:00 Caring for baby Sarah, who Martine immediately recognizes has EB 02:05:30 Mormon General Authority advises Martine & Stuart that "permanent" forms of Birth Control may not be "restored" in the Resurrection. 02:16:00 The unfortunate, life-and-death consequences of leaders inappropriately claiming to speak for God on issues of childbearing & birth control. 02:24:15 Effect of the second infant loss on the marriage 02:35:00 Martine & Stuart return to Sarah’s last days 02:46:35 They realize no lesson, no answers, and no plan justifies Sarah’s suffering 02:14:33 Mormon doctrines against birth control & fears of another child w/EB combine to cause fear & conflict in their marriage. 02:16:42 Mormon General Authority advises Martine & Stuart that "permanent" forms of Birth Control may not be "restored" in the Resurrection 02:23:16 Church’s policy on Birth Control in the Handbook & other quotes. Inappropriateness of leaders claiming to speak for God on these issues considering the personal consequences. 02:32:16 The different roles grief played between first and second child death 02:38:12 After a pregnancy scare, Martine gets her tubes tied against the advice of the General Authority, and things immediately get better. 02:41:20 Irresponsible advice from Mormon leaders can have life & death consequences. ABOUT US: Mormon Stories Podcast is the longest-running and most successful podcast in Mormonism - hosted by Dr. John Dehlin. At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also occasionally interview scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1) Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology, 2) Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis, and 3) Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions. Mormon Stories Podcast is a product of the Open Stories Foundation - a 501c3 non-profit dedicated to supporting Mormons in religious transition. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today: One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories Our Platforms: Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF Contact us: MormonStories@gmail.com PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117 #MormonStories #Mormon #lds