If you'd like to support this work through a channel membership, here's the link! https://www.youtube.com/@culturefaithandpolitics/join Pat Kahnke's books are available on Amazon: "A Christian Case Against Donald Trump" (2024): https://a.co/d/iVSTqny "MAGA Seduction: Resisting the Debasement of the Christian Conscience" (2020): https://a.co/d/1KNX3uQ Brian Zahnd's books: "Unseen Existences: Of Heaven, Earth, and the Divine Mystery in All Things": https://a.co/d/0eDCyTfK "Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God": https://a.co/d/03C3p378 "Postcards from Babylon": https://a.co/d/0c1QHoCU In this conversation, Pat Kahnke sits down with pastor and theologian Brian Zahnd — one of the most important voices calling the church back from its entanglement with partisan politics. Zahnd argues that MAGA theology has fundamentally misread Scripture: America is not God's chosen nation, not the New Jerusalem. The Bible gives her a different name — Babylon. This is a conversation about discipleship, allegiance, and what it means to follow Jesus in an era when the church has traded transcendence for political power. We cover: — Why Christian nationalism is a theological error, not just a political one — The moment Zahnd broke from partisan Christianity — and what it cost him — America as Babylon: what that frame means for how Christians live and vote — Why "Christianity without transcendence degenerates into politics" — The church's real task — and why "changing the world" through political force is the wrong mission — What genuine allegiance to Christ's kingdom looks like when Caesar demands loyalty Whether you've left the evangelical world, you're wrestling with faith and politics, or you're trying to make sense of what the church has become under Trump — this conversation is for you. Brian Zahnd is the founding pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri, and the author of multiple books on theology, nonviolence, and the kingdom of God.