Our modern world depends on thousands of miles of undersea cables carrying everything from internet traffic to electricity. But it’s suspected that Russia and China are increasingly threatening this vital infrastructure, exposing just how vulnerable Britain and its allies have become. Elisabeth Braw, Atlantic Council fellow and author of The Undersea War, joins Tom and Patrick to explore the growing threat beneath the waves. Get in touch: generalandjournalist@thetimes.co.uk 02:34 How undersea cables power the modern world 05:02 What happens if Britain's undersea cables are cut? 11:12 Russia's shadow war against undersea cables 17:23 Why it is so hard to prove who is behind cable attacks 26:10 How Britain can prepare for hybrid warfare Guest: Elisabeth Braw, Atlantic Council fellow and author of The Undersea War Hosts: General Patrick Sanders and Tom Newton Dunn Patrick brings his experience as a former head of the British Army to the podcast. He is also a Conservative peer and advises the party on defence. Producer: Julia Webster, Robert Wallace Executive producer: Peter Sale Image: Paul Brookbanks, Getty Read the best of our journalism: https://www.thetimes.com/ Listen live to Times Radio: https://www.thetimes.com/radio/live Subscribe to The Times and The Sunday Times YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=timesonlinevideo Find us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timesandsundaytimes/ Find us on X: https://x.com/thetimes Find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetimes/