Doug Duren believes that trading conservation work for land access is a viable and historic solution to increase availability for those seeking places to hunt and fish.

“what we try to do is expand it to be mostly about conservation and making a contribution to conservation somewhere. And I'm proud to say that in our third year, we just became or beginning of our fourth year now um a nonprofit and we have 53 properties in 15 states.”

Spencer Neuharth acknowledges that having places to hunt and fish is the primary hurdle for people wanting to participate in those activities.

“I've seen polling before that um access to places to hunt and fish is the number one limiting factor for folks. So, a worthy cause that you're doing there, Doug.”