“it's a revolting document if you really spend time contemplating the implications. Having said that, it also lays out the the true Mormon plan of salvation like probably no other document because it's got ceilings.”

“I think it's also understood by I mean he's dead now but very recent church leaders that seeing the physical plates isn't enough to make someone believe actually there has to be a spiritual component here.”

“So like this what we're trying to frame today is not to prove that it's to show that Joseph Smith had it in his idea in his milieu that people were talking about ancient plates.”