Welcome to Episode 70 of our LDS Discussions series! In this episode, our panel takes a deep dive into one of the most debated questions surrounding the Book of Mormon: were ancient metal plates a known concept in Joseph Smith’s world, and are they truly comparable to the golden plates he described? We examine historical sources from the 18th and 19th centuries that reference metal records –brass, copper, lead, and stone –and place them within Joseph Smith’s cultural and intellectual milieu. From biblical scholarship and early American speculation about Native American origins to apologists’ use of presentism, this episode carefully distinguishes between general awareness of metal inscriptions and the specific, unprecedented claims of a large golden codex containing extensive narrative text. Along the way, we explore major figures, books, and ideas circulating before and during Joseph Smith’s lifetime, assess whether these sources were likely known to him, and ask a crucial question: at what point does probability break down –not because of a single anachronism, but because of the sheer scale and complexity of the plates described in the Book of Mormon? This conversation builds toward a detailed timeline of Joseph Smith’s environment, highlighting how concepts expanded, evolved, and were ultimately synthesized into something entirely new. Leave a comment letting us know if you like this format with John Dehlin being “not home.” Show notes can be found on the Mormon Stories blog here: https://www.mormonstories.org/where-did-joseph-smith-get-the-idea-of-ancient-plates/ Timecodes: 00:00:00 Introduction of the panelists 00:05:46 Questions that we will answer today 00:07:58 The church’s definition of codex 00:09:39 James Adair in 1775 (two brass plates and five copper plates) 00:13:27 Orsamus Turner’s copper plate (1809) 00:14:57 John Haywood two or three plates of brass (1823) 00:16:24 Joseph Smith studied the Bible from ages 12-15 00:18:11 The Apocrypha talks of “tables of brass” 00:19:04 Jahn’s Biblical Archaeology by Johann Jahn (1823) 00:24:47 Thomas Hartwell - six copper plates (1814) 00:28:56 Bernard de Montfaucon - book of lead (1721) 00:33:02 Claudius Buchanan - six copper plates (1811) 00:34:24 Have these plates been located? 00:38:31 View of the Hebrews - Reverend Ethan Smith (1825) 00:42:02 Elias Boudinot - Ancient Indian Book (1816) 00:46:17 The front page of the book quotes the Bible 00:51:48 Charles Beatty - Native American book (1768) 00:53:27 Israel Worsley - Ancient Native American book (1828) 00:57:39 Joseph Smith’s mother’s account of Joseph telling stories 00:58:57 Nemo and “the animals upon which they rode” 01:01:23 Solomon Spaulding (1816) 01:02:38 Timeline of Joseph Smith and his milieu 01:04:22 Erie Canal project 01:05:06 Dan Vogel quote 01:06:16 Brent Metcalfe 01:08:21 Thomas Maurice - copper plates engraved in Hebrew (1806) 01:09:02 Charles Taylor - plates of lead and copper (1812) 01:11:54 Thomas Scott - written in lead (1818) 01:14:25 Flavius Josephus and William Whiston (1824) 01:16:46 Joseph Benson (1825) 01:18:39 Adam Clarke (1826) 01:22:17 Matthew Henry - lead or stone (1828) 01:25:48 Timeline with Brent Metcalfe’s sources 01:26:23 Are these plates comparable to Joseph Smith’s plates? 01:35:13 These plates would have had to contain a great deal of English text 01:43:06 Concluding thoughts ___________________ At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology 2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis 3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions 🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join Our Platforms: 🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories ✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF Contact us: 📧 MormonStories@gmail.com 📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117