In this conversation, John Anderson sits down with Prof. Simon Haines and Dr. Fiona Mueller to examine how Australia's schools and universities stopped teaching children how to think, and what a genuine restoration of education would look like. The results are measurable in falling literacy, rising school refusal, and a curriculum that has prioritised ideological formation at the expense of knowledge. From the classical roots of Western education and the Trivium to the ideological capture of teacher training and university management, Haines and Mueller expose the ideas driving the decline and the institutions already proving a better model is possible. What is at stake is not just educational outcomes, but the capacity of the next generation to reason clearly, to govern themselves wisely, and to pass on what they have inherited. Prof. Simon Haines is the Distinguished Professor of Liberal Arts at Campion College Australia, Adjunct Professor at the Australian Catholic University, and a founding Fellow of the Hong Kong Academy of the Humanities. He previously served as the inaugural CEO of the Ramsay Centre for Western Civilisation and is a Director of Humanities for Life. Dr. Fiona Mueller served as Head of ANU College at the Australian National University and as Director of Curriculum at the Australian Curriculum Assessment and Reporting Authority (ACARA), and was named among the five most influential people in Australian education by the Australian Financial Review in 2019. She is an Adjunct Fellow with the Centre for Independent Studies, a Senior Fellow with Advance HE (formerly the Higher Education Academy), and currently serves as Director of Research at the Page Research Centre. Sign up to John's newsletter here: https://johnanderson.net.au/contact/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 00:00:00 — Introduction 00:03:05 — What Is Education? 00:10:41 — Indoctrination Or Education? 00:15:52 — What Happened To Universities? 00:26:50 — Why Parents Are Leaving Schools 00:32:12 — Activism In Universities 00:45:38 — The Student Disengagement Crisis 00:49:22 — The Rise Of Victim Culture 00:53:26 — Bureaucracy & University Decline 01:01:42 — Civics & Nation Building 01:05:43 — Australia's Literacy Crisis 01:10:30 — Restoring Knowledge In Schools 01:15:20 — Reforming Education 01:20:15 — Final Thoughts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conversations feature John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, interviewing the world's foremost thought leaders about today's pressing social, cultural and political issues. John believes proper, robust dialogue is necessary if we are to maintain our social strength and cohesion. As he puts it; "You cannot get good public policy out of a bad public debate." If you value this discussion and want to see more like it, make sure you subscribe to the channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtnYSEGViOnb7k8ezUaWUww?sub_confirmation=1 And stay right up to date with all the conversations by subscribing to the newsletter here: https://johnanderson.net.au/contact/ Follow John on X: https://x.com/JohnAndersonAC Follow John on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnandersonac Follow John on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnandersonac/ Support the channel: https://johnanderson.net.au/support/ Website: https://johnanderson.net.au/ Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Qh2fEsC7nEVxXxQzwTv54 2QH0QLLWRVNX5LFA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- View Simon's website: https://www.simonhaines.net/ View Humanities For Life website: https://humanitiesforlife.com/ View Fiona's CIS profile: https://www.cis.org.au/person/fiona-mueller/ View Fiona's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fiona-mueller-6a193323b/