Dr. Joscha Bach discusses advanced AI, consciousness, and cognitive modeling. He presents consciousness as a virtual property emerging from self-organizing software patterns, challenging panpsychism and materialism. Bach introduces "Cyberanima," reinterpreting animism through information processing, viewing spirits as self-organizing software agents. He addresses limitations of current large language models and advocates for smaller, more efficient AI models capable of reasoning from first principles. Bach describes his work with Liquid AI on novel neural network architectures for improved expressiveness and efficiency. The interview covers AI's societal implications, including regulation challenges and impact on innovation. Bach argues for balancing oversight with technological progress, warning against overly restrictive regulations. Throughout, Bach frames consciousness, intelligence, and agency as emergent properties of complex information processing systems, proposing a computational framework for cognitive phenomena and reality. SPONSOR MESSAGE: DO YOU WANT WORK ON ARC with the MindsAI team (current ARC winners)? Interested? Apply for an ML research position: benjamin@tufa.ai TOC [00:00:00] 1.1 Consciousness and Intelligence in AI Development [00:07:44] 1.2 Agency, Intelligence, and Their Relationship to Physical Reality [00:13:36] 1.3 Virtual Patterns and Causal Structures in Consciousness [00:25:49] 1.4 Reinterpreting Concepts of God and Animism in Information Processing Terms [00:32:50] 1.5 Animism and Evolution as Competition Between Software Agents 2. Self-Organizing Systems and Cognitive Models in AI [00:37:59] 2.1 Consciousness as self-organizing software [00:45:49] 2.2 Critique of panpsychism and alternative views on consciousness [00:50:48] 2.3 Emergence of consciousness in complex systems [00:52:50] 2.4 Neuronal motivation and the origins of consciousness [00:56:47] 2.5 Coherence and Self-Organization in AI Systems 3. Advanced AI Architectures and Cognitive Processes [00:57:50] 3.1 Second-Order Software and Complex Mental Processes [01:01:05] 3.2 Collective Agency and Shared Values in AI [01:05:40] 3.3 Limitations of Current AI Agents and LLMs [01:06:40] 3.4 Liquid AI and Novel Neural Network Architectures [01:10:06] 3.5 AI Model Efficiency and Future Directions [01:19:00] 3.6 LLM Limitations and Internal State Representation 4. AI Regulation and Societal Impact [01:31:23] 4.1 AI Regulation and Societal Impact [01:49:50] 4.2 Open-Source AI and Industry Challenges Refs (URLs in shownotes): Chalmers, D. J. (1995). Facing Up to the Problem of Consciousness. Journal of Consciousness Studies, 2(3), 200-219. [0:52:35] Chollet, F. (2019). On the Measure of Intelligence. arXiv:1911.01547. [0:07:45, 0:08:30] Chollet, F. (n.d.). ARC-AGI. GitHub. [1:25:00] Chomsky, N., & Herman, E. S. (1988). Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media. [1:31:40] Christiansen, M. H., & Chater, N. (2022). The Language Game: How Improvisation Created Language and Changed the World. [0:33:05] Clark, A., & Chalmers, D. (1998). The Extended Mind. Analysis, 58(1), 7-19. [0:33:20] Clay Mathematics Institute. (n.d.). The Riemann Hypothesis. [0:07:00] Commodore 64 Wiki. (n.d.). BASIC. [0:19:50] Dawkins, R. (2006). The Selfish Gene: 30th Anniversary Edition. [0:16:42] Descartes, R. (1637). Cogito, ergo sum. In Discourse on the Method. [0:45:35] Goff, P. (n.d.). Academic Papers. [0:50:55, 0:58:30] Goodfellow, I. J., et al. (2014). Generative Adversarial Networks. arXiv:1406.2661. [0:24:00] Hasani, R., et al. (2020). Liquid Time-constant Networks. arXiv:2006.04439. [1:06:40, 1:10:25] House of Lords. (2024). Large language models and generative AI. UK Parliament. [1:40:15] Lovelock, J. (2019). Gaia theory. Nature, 570, 441-442. [1:00:30] Marcus, G. (2024). Taming Silicon Valley: How We Can Ensure That AI Works for Us. [1:26:07] Maturana, H. R., & Varela, F. J. (1980). Autopoiesis and Cognition: The Realization of the Living. [0:31:25] Mordvintsev, A., et al. (2020). Growing Neural Cellular Automata. Distill, 5(2), e23. [1:19:00] Stability AI. (n.d.). Stable Diffusion. GitHub. [1:50:25] Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. (n.d.). Animism. [0:30:35] Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. (n.d.). Embodied Cognition. [0:33:20] Stephan, A. (2006). The dual role of 'emergence' in the philosophy of mind and in cognitive science. Synthese, 151(3), 485-498. [0:17:10] Tononi, G. (2004). An information integration theory of consciousness. BMC Neuroscience, 5(42). [0:44:55] Wolfram, S. (2020, April 14). Finally We May Have a Path to the Fundamental Theory of Physics... and It's Beautiful. [0:45:55] Zuckerberg, M. (2014). Move fast and break things. Harvard Business Review. [1:35:15] Shownotes: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g28dosz19bzcfs5imrvbu/JoschaInterview.pdf?rlkey=s3y18jy192ktz6ogd7qtvry3d&st=10z7q7w9&dl=0