"This is like The Matrix written from the point of view in which Agent Smith is the good guy, isn't it?" — Paul Kingsnorth Mary Harrington and Paul Kingsnorth are two of the most intriguing thinkers we’ve featured on Rebel Wisdom. Despite substantial overlap between Paul's concept of "the machine" and Mary's idea of "luxury Gnosticism", they have never been in dialogue with each other. This was a fascinating and wide ranging conversation where Paul and Mary pushed back against the modernist fervor for transcending the limits of the natural world — they want to remind you that meatspace is not going away, and that it can be quite lovely! Mary and Paul are returning soon to the Rebel Wisdom Digital Campfire to talk more about this topic, asking the question, 'What Do We Do?'. To join that conversation become a RW member: https://www.patreon.com/rebelwisdom Check out Paul's newsletter 'The Abbey of Misrule': https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/ And Mary's work for Unherd: https://unherd.com/author/mary-harrington/