John speaks with Baron Biggar CBE and Dr. Stephen Chavura to explore the complexities of history, challenging one-sided narratives of colonisation and conflict. Their discussion sheds light on the nuanced relationships between settlers and Indigenous peoples, revealing both moments of mutual respect and undeniable tragedy. The discussion emphasises an understanding of history within its true context, free from oversimplifications. They also examine contemporary issues affecting Indigenous Australians, including the widening gaps in remote communities despite progressive policies. Each of them advocate practical solutions that focus on integration, education, and equal justice, rather than divisive narratives perpetuating victimhood. Baron Biggar CBE is Emeritus Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at the University of Oxford, author and theologian. His most recent books are Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning (William Collins, 2023) and What’s Wrong with Rights? (Oxford University Press, 2020). Dr. Stephen Chavura teaches European and Australian history at Campion College, Sydney. His most recent (co-authored) books are The Forgotten Menzies: The Mind of Australia's Longest-Serving Prime Minister (Melbourne University Publications, 2021), and Reason, Religion and the Australian Polity: A Secular State? (Routledge, 2019). See Dr. Chavura's review of 'The Politics of Suffering' https://youtu.be/pigqipl-Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reference list: Geoffrey Blainey, The Story of Australia's People, vol.1 (Great general information on Indigenous culture and practices. The best place to start.) Manning Clark, Select Documents in Australian History, vol.1. Early documents on British-Aboriginal interactions. https://archive.org/details/selectdocumentsi0001clar/page/n5/mode/2up Keith Windschuttle, The Fabrication of Aboriginal History, vols.1 and 3. Very informative on the fate of Tasmanian Aborigines (vol.1), and an exhaustive account of the "stolen generations". Ron Brunton, Betraying the Victims: The 'Stolen Generations Report'. Outlines the many methodological flaws on the Report. Available here: https://ipa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/archive/IPABackgrounder10-1.pdf Watkin Tench – Diary (many editions with many titles). https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks/e00084.html David Collins, An Account of the English Colony in NSW (1804). https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks/e00010.html William Hughes, The Australian Colonies (1852). Excerpts available here: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=6RsXAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false William Buckley (escaped convict, lived among Aborigines for 32 years), Life and Adventures of William Buckley (many editions). https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks21/2100161h.html George Wathen, The Golden Colony (1855). https://books.google.com.au/books?id=qf1hORe-040C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false William Westgarth, Australia: Its Rise, Progress, and Present Condition (1861). https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008642150 Brough Smyth, The Aborigines of Victoria (1878). https://books.google.com.au/books?id=As9AAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conversations feature John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, interviewing the world's foremost thought leaders about today's pressing social, cultural and political issues. John believes proper, robust dialogue is necessary if we are to maintain our social strength and cohesion. As he puts it; "You cannot get good public policy out of a bad public debate." If you value this discussion and want to see more like it, make sure you subscribe to the channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtnYSEGViOnb7k8ezUaWUww?sub_confirmation=1 And stay right up to date with all the conversations by subscribing to the newsletter here: https://johnanderson.net.au/contact/ Follow John on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JohnAndersonAC Follow John on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnandersonac Follow John on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnandersonac/ Support the channel: https://johnanderson.net.au/support/ Website: https://johnanderson.net.au/ Podcast: https://johnanderson.net.au/podcasts/ 2QH0QLLWRVNX5LFA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow Dr. Nigel Biggar on X: https://x.com/NigelBiggar Follow Dr. Stephen Chavura on X: https://x.com/ChavuraStephen