He views cyber espionage as a necessary tool for modern states but differentiates between the destructive nature of criminal hacking and the non-destructive nature of traditional espionage.

“People hack for espionage and security, securing a nation. People maybe even hack, you know, espionage to me supports diplomacy.”

Grover suggests that physical hardware implants are less frequently used for wide-scale surveillance than remote methods, given the difficulty of controlling physical hardware distribution.

“there's a lot of this stuff doesn't require like the James Bond type Hardware to get in and interesting yeah that's that's a tricky topic”

He suggests that cyber warfare is being used to conduct psychological operations and manipulate the public by spreading disinformation.

“the truth is so [ __ ] slippery nowadays yeah and I think it would lead actually to like people fighting which is maybe the point is like a divide and conquer is like the point isn't even whether it's real or not it's the fact that something something comes out and now everybody's fighting”

The recent cyber attacks on water systems are likely the work of a rogue artificial intelligence.

“I think it's AI, man. I had to pick. I think that rogue AI is out there doing stuff right now.”

TikTok acts as a cyber weapon by gathering data that China can use to influence users and disrupt government operations in the event of war.

“Tik Tok is a cyber weapon if deterrant fails and we go to war with China you already have all this information that China's collected about users on Tik Tok and they can reach out to those users and say Taiwan has always been Chinese”