I had a wonderful time talking with Jordan Hall, who has recently converted to Christianity from a secular worldview. We talk about his conversation, societal engineering, artificial intelligence, and the fundamental distinction between vertical and horizontal qualities. We also talk about the problem of delusion, how to know what’s real, the meaning of faith and memory, using technology safely, and not getting lost in our daily life problems. Don't miss my and Richard Rohlin's new 5-week live course on Dante's Divine Comedy: Purgatorio. Classes started August 27th, but you can still join us. Involved patrons get 10% discount. Apply your unique code at checkout. https://thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-purgatorio Follow Jordan Hall: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JordanGreenhall/featured Medium: https://medium.com/deep-code X: https://x.com/jgreenhall Timestamps: 00:00 - Coming up 01:09 - Intro music 01:35 - How has converting to Christianity been? 03:23 - Has your thinking changed regarding strategizing about societal engineering? 06:22 - Competing with AI 08:38 - Vertical and horizontal 13:11 - Back to Jordan's conversion 18:52 - The top of the stack 23:14 - Faith and cheapened terms 29:42 - Trust and memory 40:34 - The problem of delusion 49:25 - Acquiring maturity 58:01 - Confession 01:00:17 - Using technology safely 01:05:48 - Putting out fires 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 📱 SOCIAL MEDIA Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.