This was a special in person dialogue between the cognitive scientist John Vervaeke and the symbolism expert Jonathan Pageau. They reflect on what each finds valuable about each other's work, the nature of the conversation that they have been part of, good and bad criticism, the nature of symbolism and much more. It was recorded in Toronto during the making of the forthcoming Rebel Wisdom documentary about John Vervaeke's thought. Some behind the scenes pictures, and a second part of this film is available for subscribers on the Rebel Wisdom Substack: https://rebelwisdom.substack.com/p/dialogue-curiosity-and-wonder-a-special This dialogue was filmed by Chris Altorf of Black & White Media: https://www.blackwhitemedia.ca/about-us John Vervaeke's YouTube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpqDUjTsof-kTNpnyWper_Q Jonathan Pageau's work can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ Very grateful to Dan Hammond for the audio mix. Timecodes for the conversation: