Think for yourself. Subscribe to The Free Press today: https://thefp.pub/3DmLpLi Conservative commentator Ben Shapiro sees the civilizational battle of the modern era as one between the builders and the destroyers—or as he writes it in his new book, between the “lions” and the “scavengers.” When I sat down with Ben this week, he explained the way he sees this dynamic play out in American society—across both political parties—as “scavengers,” who feed on grievance, identity politics, and moral relativism, cut down the progress of “lions,” who choose responsibility, courage, and a commitment to truth, even when it’s unpopular. Over the past two years, Ben has seen the scavengers ascendant, as America and Europe have exploded in violent protest against their own institutions, blaming their ills on the free markets and constitutional republicanism, or on the “military-industrial complex” and “global Jewry.” I spoke with Ben about the way out of the darkness—which he thinks can best be found in religious values: family obligation and procreation, moral order, and meaning beyond the self. Our conversation ranged across birth rates, wokeness, and the Donald Trump presidency, with moments of both agreement and debate. I came away with a clearer understanding of his worldview—one that frames the future of Western civilization as a high-stakes struggle, more fraught than ever. 00:00 – Introduction 00:33 – Why Ben Wrote *Lions and Scavengers* 02:49 – October 7, Protests, and Safety Concerns 05:23 – Ad: Uber 05:52 – Lions vs. Scavengers 09:58 – Religion, Personal Responsibility, and Conspiracy Thinking 12:10 – Immigration, Colonialism, and Cognitive Dissonance 18:24 – Copying Western Institutions 22:28 – Mythmaking and Rebranding Institutions 23:19 – From California to Florida 27:59 – Sexual Libertinism & Civilizational Decay 30:32 – Identity, Individualism & the Scavenger Mentality 32:53 – Marriage, Birthrates, and Civilizational Continuity 43:05 – Ad: The Isabel Brown Show 43:39 – Report Card for Trump's Second Term 49:37 Trump's First Term vs. Potential Second 51:45 Have We Reached Peak Wokeness? 53:32 - Second Amendment Debate 1:00:58 – Ben's Most Controversial Positions 1:02:38 - The Dangers of Vladimir Putin 1:04:27 - Ben Addresses His Critics